Wednesday, October 18, 2006
7 Reasons To Keep Using Firefox
Is IceWeasel the solution to Debian and Mozilla trademarks issues? I don't know right now. I really think Debian have the right to fork Firefox or any other Free Software project but, in this case, I think it is better to keep using Firefox instead of IceWeasel. This is a brief list of the reasons:
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- Firefox is a good browser. Many people think it's the best browser around.
- Mozilla protects its users. By protecting their brand they are protecting us too. It's harder that someone includes malicious code (i.e. spyware) in the code base and distribute it with the same name. So it's more trustful.
- Mozilla promotes good Open Source practice. If you improve a piece of software you should send the patch back to the original author so that you help to improve the project you benefit from. I think it's selfish not doing so.
- It has been developed properly. Firefox was designed and coded by the same group so I think the work must be consistent.
- Mozilla focuses in a small number of closely related products. They're not spreading resources, so there are more chances that bug fixes and new versions are released faster.
- Firefox is cross platform. Many users have different operating systems at home and work/school and I'm one of them. I can use Firefox at work and feel it like home.
- Firefox has a large user base. There are more chances to find help in forums and web articles about a popular program. Also, it's more likely to find good extensions that install and work properly.
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2.) One could easily add spyware code to mozilla and still publish it as mozilla. User protection doesn't come from trademark policies, it comes from good quality software with freely available source code.
3.) It's good that firefox is Free Software. However, trying to lock in users and other developers by stupid trademark policies is not good practice.
4.) Oh, say, all other Free Software/Open Source projects are shite then? Is Debian shite software. Firefox is based on software that's almost 20 years old, many different people have been working on it and have gone away again. According to your argument, it must be a piece of very inconsistent software then.
5.) True, and other Free Software projects don't? Have you actually checked how many fixes Debian Developers contribute to the software they package? Free Software development is about involving as many people as possible, but you're claiming it's the other way round.
6.) D'oh, and other webbrowsers aren't? Do you actually use anything else than x86/amd64? Do you actually have a clue what true cross-platform-capability is?
7.) Well, IE has an even larger user base, why don't we use that then? IE Runs very nicely with wine, so there's no excuse of not using it with GNU/Linux.
Next time, please do some more research and get a clue before inventing arguments out of the blue air that don't have any connection with reality.
IHBT, IHL, HAND.
Btw, firefox sux. I had to post this reply with konqueror. The form wouldn't show the captcha in firefox, d'oh.
This won't be too much of a wasted effort.
I don't like debian as much as some but i don't think that they are wrong in doing this.
Personally i think mozilla is in the wrong for attacking such a reputable group as Debian for patching their own opensource product.
Sure they own the trademark but how does debian making run smoother on their system harm that??
Or is it they fear debian will bundle spyware with it as your article says?
Debian doesn't attack Linspire or Ubuntu does it??
They are being funny over the trademerk, but you don't see the Linux kernel getting paid it's dues when people use it's name, or Linus insisting on a single release of Linux.
Or does Mozilla plan support for their own debian/suse/mandriva/redhat/knoppix/gentoo/...
well i think you get the point that would be very demanding and that they should just work with the teams on each of these projects to support the browser better, or provide a binary install for them. (seems very closed to me that)
It's counter intuitive and not friendly. This could lose FF some opensource users. Persoanlly I only use it on M$ as it is the best alternative, in Linux there are many alternatives keen to step in and they already have.
And here comes Debian, changes the rules and therefore can't mark it as Firefox! They can call it whatever they like, but it's not the brand of Firefox anymore, specially by doing such stupid things!
Or think about it: Lets take the sources of Debian, do all kinds of stupid things and re-distribute it as.....Debian? Oh yes, this is what's all about and the Debian people would come jumping, requesting to refrain from using the Debian brand name....
Currently, the only legal way for Debian to release FF code in the main branch of the release is to rename it, until Mozilla gives permission otherwise.
It was one of Mozilla Corporation representatives who was too hostile to the Debian project when he wrote in e-mail about "bending a bit DFSG rules". I too would be mad when someone came and told me that my principles and ideals were wrong and I should bend them for some corporate reason. Debian devs reacted in the only one reasonable way: they dropped the logo AND the name to remove the cause of this quarrel.
I think that now it's time for Mozilla to show its good will. I eagerly await their move.
So Debian has its own branded browser and Mozilla is not complaining. What's the fuss about now?
1. I don't care what "many people say". I care either what the MAJORITY say :) or what the browser's technical merits are.
2. Protecting users is not their main concern. Protecting their Windows users is. And protecting their brand. In addition, they can only forbid official releases/patches of official distros, not unofficial patches. The latter are the real problem, and the latter can't be controlled by this branding policy (which only affects us, the good folks).
3. "Good Open Source practice" involves sending back patches, all right. Not as a precondition for being approved, though. And it's selfish not doing so, all right. Selfish, not illegal, though.
4. No comment.
5. Bugfixes are released faster, all right. For Windows, that is. Here, in the Open Source world, they (Firefox folks) slowdown bugfixing by others (they need to wait for approval) while themselves don't care to provide bugfixes until noticeably later than for Windows (this is verifiable info).
6. Cross-platform? Duh! All browsers are (becoming) cross-platform these days! We're not in the nineties anymore.
7. More chances to find help? This is a browser, not a distro or a rocket engine. The minimum needed community size is not as large as your argument makes it look.
To this comment: "You have the freedom to use, change and distribute mozilla's code...But you are not allowed to mark it as Firefox! The same is true for Debian" -- Yes. And Firefox claims it is free software. So they are inconsistent (*). Debian never claimed to be Free Software, so they can't be inconsistent (**).
(**) Debian can't be Free Software because Debian is not software. Debian is a distro. Generally, Free Software Distros can't have one certain licence anyway.
(*) MPL *is* a free software license, the fact that it includes this "branding clause" only means it's not copyleft enough (because you're free to limit rights); however, actual *use* of this freedom makes the software (+name+logo) non-free.
CONCLUSION: I hate it that Debian had to rebrand Firefox, but they have to stick to their social contract, which I very much support. OTOH, I understand Firefox's concerns and I very much support their protecting their own brand.
Certainly, rebranding is not the end of the world, yet Firefox needs more unity, especially within the world of Free Software, which is its most important promoter.
The only alternative I can think of is that Firefox allow GNU distros use another iconset (as an exception). BTW, I haven't even noticed Debian were not using the "Circumterrestrial Fox"; I think everybody will still perceive it as good old Firefox (which I care about, although I don't use very often).
Please visit Renegade's BS
further more, all these "advanced" features are now more common place with. for example saving sessions and then the "foxmarks" extension are both standard features in both Maxthon and Avant.
my advice is to compare
FF 2.0
IE7
Opera
Avant
Maxthon
all side by side and find which you like best.
i will still use FF and stick to v1.5.0.7 and wait for 2.0 to iron itself out
There is a reason why Firefox is widely preferred by many surfers for personal and business purposes.
And I agree, The more users there are, the bigger the support for that software. So I'd still be an avid fan.
Oh, and yeah, Thunderbird rocks....
Discount Auto Parts Store Junkie
Firefox is safe, reliable, fast, feature-loaded, independent, powerful, and with version 2, a whole lot better.
By contrast, Internet Explorer 7 is slow, resource hungry, a Firefox rip-off, and has made changes to the way it interprets very basic HTML elements such as tables.
Websites that worked with IE6 and Firefox 1 and 2 display incorrectly with IE 7, and that is a sign that Microsoft is trying to kill the competition again.
Their browser is inferior, annoying, anti-competitive, anti-collobative, and devolutionary.
We can all like our own browsers
Just because someone else likes something different doesn't mean we need to promote our own idea of whats good - or shoot down other peoples views.
Theres a place in the world for everyone - even Uncle Bill - and whatever the big Corporates try to do to squeeze eveyone out - they'll never succeed anyway.
Life finds a way